Shirley Phelps-Roper: Well, the lord Jesus Christ told us what it was going to look like when the last days came, when it was time for his return, through the clouds, in a flame of fire, with the shouts and the voice of the Archangel, and the trump of God to execute judgment on this generation. He told us what that would look like. You can find that at Luke 17. The overarching answer is that no man knows the day nor the hour, but he said you’re going to know it in years, it’s easier to discern the signs of the times than it is to discern the weather, and you know how easy that is.
Tyler Stephen Bass: Yeah, that’s not too easy. But it’s easier than the weather, so it’s there.
SP: Exactly, and weather isn’t really all that hard. You got a pretty good idea of what’s going on, and it says you look at the sky, and that was in the days of Christ that they know. So everybody throughout the ages has a pretty good idea of when a storm is coming.
TSB: Pastor Phelps commented in a video produced within the year that the mockery done by Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert was a sign that the world was about to end.
SP: Exactly. That’s a harbinger! That’s a harbinger of this time because they have made such . . . When you say that the lord is coming, or that he’s going to execute judgment, or more specifically, on the ground that this nation America is doomed, you’re just joking and making a joke.
TSB: Do you subscribe to LeHaye’s Left Behind theories? Not the dramatization of it, but do you think that the disappearance of Christians followed by 3-7 years of hell on Earth, as it were, is what the Bible communicates? And do you think that that’s true?
SP: Well, of course, you have absolutely nothing in the scripture that says that. Nothing. It’s all just a . . . I don’t know where he gets that idea. What you have in the scripture is that, as it was in the days of Lot, as it was in the days of Noah, that is when god was prepared to destroy in the [world before the flood] and to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Those conditions will exist when the some of man returns. All of this stuff where you’re going to have Christians [disappear], no. It means that there’s not anyone hardly left on this Earth who will serve god. Hardly anyone. You know, there were eight souls that went onto that ark, and by some accounts there could have been as many as 16 billion souls total on the Earth. So you know that that’s one of the conditions. Another one of the conditions are that those people who would serve god are going to be evilly treated. They are going to be treated awful. They are going to be marginalized and demonized and vilified. Who does that to Mr. LeHaye?
TSB: Do you think it will come through a nuclear apocalypse, or do you think it will come from literal fire from the sky, from the burning of seas, all of these images we see? Will it be something overtly supernatural or something that is-?
SP: No. No. No, no, no. Look, you look to Jude. You know Jude? Second to last book of the Bible?
TSB: Yeah, uh, I’ve heard of it. I haven’t read it all the way through.
SP: And Peter II: 3. The last book of the bible was written by Jude, who was one of the two brothers of the lord Jesus Christ, who wrote a book of the bible. And the other one of his brothers was James, who wrote the book of James. And he says this: Even as Sodom and Gomorrah and cities about them are set forth for an example, giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Peter II says this: And knowing all of these things will melt in a fervent heat, what manner of persons need to be in all holy conversation, raise your matter of life and godliness. So you know that the destruction is going to come in a fervent heat and in the Revelation, it describes what is going to happen to this nation, the destruction of this nation is going to be abrupt, a woman in travail, who abruptly finds herself in hard labor. It’s going to be gruesome, destructive, and the whole world is going to be watching in horror. So those words should help you out with those concepts. But the bottom line here is simply this: Read those words. Pay attention to those examples. You know, this nation has a great big, If you forget the lessons of history then you are . . .
Together: . . . doomed to repeat them.
SP: Do you know what I am talking about, when I’m talking about the holocaust. If we forget it, we’ll repeat it?
SP: We have forgotten the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in this nation.
TSB: Do you believe—
SP: Every person in Doomed America should have a PhD in ancient Sodom and her destruction, and in the [world before the flood] and her destruction. But they don’t so much as mention Sodom.
TSB: How was Sodom destroyed?
SP: FIRE AND BRIMSTONE RAINED FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN! Now, you can go on the Internet and you can find those archaeologists that found that location where that happened, and it is so awesome because that stuff that fell from God out of heaven, it annihilated everything! The heat was so hot, it is a perfect example of – they found it, and it wasn’t terribly long ago and they have a video clip where they show that . . . They got some of those leftover pellets that were not completely consumed, and put one on a spoon and lit it up, and the heat was so hot that it melted the spoon!
SP: It had a sulfur substance, and there’s a lot more words that I cannot remember right now. It was so awesome, and it helps you to understand that god is not limited. We think we know so doggone much, but our minds and our knowledge are so finite, but god says, my way, as the heavens are above the earth, so are my ways above your ways. So when you start thinking about what god is going to do to destroy this Earth and how that’s going to look, forget that! Think this! Obey his commandments! Here is the conclusion. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter! Fear god, and keep his commandments for this is the whole duty of man, for god will bring every work into judgment and all your secret things, whether they be good or whether they be evil, so your thoughts ought to be to “What manner of person am I going to be?” in all holy conversation and godliness knowing that shortly, knowing that shortly, no matter what, no matter if you live after 70 years or 80 or 90 or 100! Then, you ought to draw a line around the galaxy, and put a tiny tic mark on it, and the tic mark will be too large to represent your life on this Earth as compared to eternity because it goes on forever and ever. What’s going to happen to you when you quit this life?
TSB: Are you asking me?
SP: No. I’m just telling you.
SP: These are the things that you ought to be thinking on. All of this talk about when the lord’s coming, well, the evidence is in, and right now what the evidence looks like is that it’s going to be shortly.
TSB: Do you believe that there’s been a rise in homosexual behavior in America?
SP: [laughter] You’re kidding me, right?
TSB: No! I’m not!
SP: I don’t think there’s been a rise in the behavior. What there’s a rise in is this nation rising up with one voice like one man to say, “It’s OK to be gay.” That’s what there’s a rise in.
SP: There’s a rise in enablers, those who take pleasure in those filthy perverts instead of doing their duty to them, and saying plainly to them, god hates fags, and if you lead that manner of life, you are going to die and split hell wide open! And so if you value your never-dying soul, don’t do that! And then, stay away from them! Don’t engage in their conduct! Don’t encourage them, because you will be a partaker of their sin!
TSB: Do you believe that homosexuals are actively or inactively a factor in god’s wrath in the end of days?
SP: Oh my gosh! You are kidding me, right? If you have not read Judges 19, 20, and 21 where it describes how . . .
TSB: Assume I haven’t.
SP: And it’s almost identical to Genesis 19 where Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, the description of those filthy perverts, the language is almost identical several hundred years later. Fags doom nations. They wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, and they almost completely annihilated the tribe of Benjamin! In fact, they never recovered. In fact, they are not even counted as a tribe hardly. When they speak of the two southern tribes, it is Judah. They don’t even mention Benjamin!
TSB: My understanding from reading the gospels is that the followers of Jesus believed that the apocalypse, the end of days would come very soon, within their own lifetimes. Is that – ?
SP: No, that’s not right.
TSB: Yeah, I didn’t think you’d agree with that.
SP: Those guys knew just like we know. Paul, knowing that he was about to die, the last book he wrote, the last chapter of the last book, he says plainly the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, that “doomed America” or not. Their own lust they heap to themselves. Teachers, having itching ears. That is, they are listening what do the people want who have turned away from the truth, and for that, they have been turned unto fables. God, he says in the old testament several times that he will choose their delusions. That’s what Paul is talking about. You’ve been turned unto fables. You’re deluded! God have given you delusions so that you would believe a lie.
TSB: When did you come to the conclusion that god hates fags, homosexuals? When did this come to you?
SP: Whenever I was reading . . . I think the time when I actually thought on it, because, you know, when I was a child there wasn’t any discussion about homosexuals. When I was in law school, a girl who was in law school with me was telling me about some friends she had back home in Missouri and blah, blah, this and that, and they’re gay, she was telling me.
SP: And so she says, “What does the bible say about that?” Well, I knew that I had read Romans I, and I remembered when I read it I thought, “Hey, that sounds like when I heard about what they did to homosexuals, that’s what this is.” And knowing that, I got that out and we read it, and you know, there dawned another conclusion! If they were leaving their woman to change their actual use to that which is against nature and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, men with men burned in their lust one toward another, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which is fitting. I mean, you know that’s pretty plain language. And then, furthermore, you gotta go over there to Leviticus 18:22, where it says thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination, and Luke 17 at that same place while I was just telling that he describes for you how it’s going to look before he returns, and he says, right on the heels of that other word, he says, remember Lot’s wife, and then in Leviticus 20, he fixes the death penalty for those things, for those conducts.
TSB: Your church’s hatred of homosexuals is very well known.
SP: Our church’s hatred of homosexuals? Good grief!
TSB: Well, you guys don’t like homosexuals, right? Because god does not like homosexuals, am I right?
SP: We are the only people on the face of this Earth. Your said our church’s [views] is well known, so, in other words, our doctrine is well known. That’s what you are saying. Our doctrine and the scriptures are crystal clear. We are the only people demonstrating any love for these people, for these homosexual beasts. The scripture calls them brute beasts. They are to be taken and to be destroyed. It’s god’s hatred, and we’re telling you what the standard is. And we are doing that because of our love for our god and for our fellow man.
TSB: I was just about to ask, since the bible says that the end of the world is easier to predict than the weather, and all the signs, the bible also says, will not be completely hidden, do you feel that it will be within my lifetime, your lifetime? I’m 21 years old.
SP: I’m absolutely positive that it will be within my lifetime.
TSB. Right. This is what I really wanted to talk to you about. Tons of people in this culture, even people you would say are not following god’s law, agree with you that the world will end within their lifetimes.
SP: You know that’s not any coincidence. Who do you think-? Don’t you think that’s the problem with this arrogant nation? You do error, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of god. When it comes time, don’t you know that those people will know that it is the time for the lord Jesus Christ to be born on this Earth? We’re all looking for it.
TSB: The bible says it will come like a thief in the night.
TSB: So what makes you think that in your lifetime it is likely to happen? That’s what I am really curious about.
SP: Because . . . I’ve got scripture for you on that.
TSB: Do it! Pull it up!
SP: When you see . . . it’s the Parable Of The Fig Tree! It’s the Parable Of The Fig Tree! Just a minute. If you want me to tell you this in better terms, in clearer terms, you ‘re just going to have to give me a second. It’s the end of the day and I’m tired.
SP: You’re going to have to let me pull it up, OK?
TSB: Sure. Take your time.
SP: Hold on. I’m cleaning while we’re talking, so I’ve got to get back over to my –
TSB: Sounds like you’re a good multitasker.
SP: Yeah. When you have 11 children and activity all day and every day, you have to be a good multitasker. All right. Are you ready for this good stuff? It is good stuff.
TSB: Fire away, Shirley.
SP: I think it’s Matthew 21. No, sorry, Matthew 24, but it’s the same thing in another Gospel. It’s Matthew 24, and it’s so awesome. All right . . .
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh
SP: Everybody knows, when you are looking at the trees in your neighborhood, you have lived and you have lived all your life, or long enough to know the signs of the seasons. Now listen to this next verse . . .
. . . so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you . . .
Now, listen. Here is the key to answer your question.
. . . this generation shall not pass ‘til all these things be fulfilled.
Now, he gave the parable of the fig tree before, you understand, I just gave you the part now about learning the parable.
TSB: Right. I was citing that before. That’s what confused me. Because that would seem to be speaking to the audience that originally heard that verse before it was written down.
SP: No, no! No, no, no! It’s the generation that sees the events, OK? Not the generation that is seeing him talk about the fig tree, see?
For whosesoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
You know what that’s talking about right?
TSB: The eagle is talking about the United States, right?
SP: No. Wherever you have got the carcass of the lord Jesus Christ, there his eagle saints are gathered together with him.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
You’re getting a little bit confused about those stars, and so forth? They’re talking about the shaking of the nations. That’s talking about how when you look up in these nations, that across the international landscape, there are great shakings going on. Powers, people are rising up and people are falling down. That’s the powers that are shaken.
TSB: Do you believe that’s unique to our times? Is it a symptom of globalism or globalization?
SP: Wait a minute.
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And you look up and you can see other harbingers of that time.
TSB: What is a modern harbinger of that time? What do you see in current events?
SP: Well, the whole globe, almost without exception, has risen up with one voice. People who do not join in would be called the statistically insignificant minority. [they] have not joined in to say it’s not OK to be gay. And, look, do you understand that is says that the whole world is going to hate you. Did you see that documentary out of the BBC?
TSB: No. Which one?
SP: The one that they did about us, and you know what they titled it?
TSB: Oh, yeah. The Most Hated Family in America!
SP: Exactly! And not only that, we’ve been hearing from all over. Did you see the Jeremy Kyle show?
TSB: Jeremy Kyle, huh? No.
SP: It’s been recently. It played, it aired about less than week ago. Just like that BBC, and almost immediately, it’s uploaded now. If you go to Jeremy Kyle, or you put my name in, you’re going to find those. It’s four clips, that show. Those people, it’s all over the globe. You know, when they arrested me last Tuesday –
TSB: I’m sorry. Actually, I wanted to tell you I’m really sorry about that. I don’t think that people should be arrested for burning or messing up the flag. I think that’s inherently against –
SP: You mean, or having their ten-year-old child standing on it?
TSB: Yeah, or even having their ten-year-old child standing on it.
SP: Which, of course, I didn’t have him stand on it. He stood on it his own self. That’s been his whole life, that little boy standing on flags.
TSB: I thought that was unfair. I really thought that was unfair. I don’t support all the stuff you do, but I felt like their putting you in jail for your child not respecting America and burning a flag is actually fairly un-American, to be frank with you.
SP: Exactly! And he didn’t burn the flag, he just stood on it.
TSB: He just stood on it? Whatever. Sorry.
SP: Here’s the point. Here’s the point about that. That article, AP story?
SP: It circled this globe. You just go in and put that article in and you’re going to find it in Beijing. Every part of the globe, and I’m telling you what this means is that the lord Jesus Christ, who holds the keys to the doors of utterance and who opens those doors and no man can shut them, is bringing these events on apace, so that we can fulfill another prophecy in Matthew. I think it’s 24 where it says that all the nations are going to be preached to. These words are going to go into all of these nations so that the end can come. So I’m telling you: events are happening apace. The works that are going on in this country. Look, can you give me one second?
SP: Thank you.
TSB: You were talking about these events that were going on in this country. I was really interested in what you thought.
SP: Yes. Ever since bimbo, bombastic, big-mouthed, blowhard, bastard Bush took office, we have had the first and the worst and the most of anything. The worst homeland terrorist attack, as they call it. The worst so-called natural disaster. The worst massacre, you understand?
TSB: Which natural disaster are you talking about? Are you talking about the tsunami?
SP: Well, there you go. You got several, don’t ya? You’ve got Katrina. And here, let me say one word about that, one word about these natural disasters. This nation is the glory of those spectacular events to their great goddess, their false goddess, Mother Nature. And the lord god, whose name is Jealous, who says that is my glory, and I will not give my glory to another. Every time this nature and any freak in her calls out an act of nature, they enrage their god. That is his glory. He calls the whirlwind his fury marching through the land. That’s his actions.
TSB: When people talk of nature, I think they’re often describing how something’s happening, and when you say it’s an act of god, you’re saying why something happened, and I don’t think it’s –
SP: No, no, no. Don’t you dare go trying to separate god from his actions. Don’t do that. That’s foolish. That’s his actions! It comes from his hand! He says, shall there be evil in the city and God has not done it?
TSB: I don’t think really it’s a separation. You can say god did it, and I guess, you know, fair enough, but that doesn’t describe how clouds form and move and it doesn’t mean it will happen randomly by chance and there’s no meaning to it.
SP: Yeah! Exactly! And the wonder and the majesty of his deeds and his power and his ways! And it should give a person a reason to bow and praise the god who created the heaven and the earth! Who put out the stars and put them in their courses, and created every creature and every thing! He needs nothing from us! He asks nothing from us, except our obedience, and he says that in the scriptures. I didn’t ask for anything from you except that you obey my commandments. Did you have a computer bible? If you don’t, go online and do bible.com or something.
TSB: Bible gateway. Yeah.
SP: And you do a quick search, a quick word search and put in “keep my commandments.” You will be amazed how many times – not in the old testament, but in the new testament – Jesus Christ said, if you love me, keep my commandments. This is love of god that you keep my commandments and that they are not grievous!